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Old 11-02-2001, 02:01 PM   #1
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According to a MSNBC report last week, only 1/3rd of americans feel confident about air travel security.

As someone with a background in security, I certainly can say that I feel that airport security is still very much a joke. The emphasis on examining luggage and not the people is an impossible logistical task and pointless. Besides, they're can't even do that right.

That said, the security lapses lead to such a minimal risk in my safety to the extent that it's not important. Personally, I feel that I (90% of the time) am a low-profile traveler; I frequent narrowbody aircraft on <1000mi routes. I'll admit that taking a transcon on a 767 makes me stop and consider the potential for trouble.

Maybe that shouldn't matter, though. I often travel to the largest cities in the world and realize that in the September 11 attacks, there were significantly more deaths of those on the ground than those in the air.

So, what would it take for you to be confident in air travel security?

For me:
  • Security checkpoints to be run by trained law enforcement officers
  • More security checks on airline and airport employees
  • Background checks on all travelers
  • Limits on use of cash to purchase full-fare and other expensive tickets
  • Consistent passenger/bag matching on domestic flights.
  • Screening of all checked luggage.
  • Face recognition technology at all security checkpoints
  • Central database of fingerprints for all travellers.

What do you think?

Cheers.

Daniel

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Old 11-02-2001, 02:01 PM   #2
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According to a MSNBC report last week, only 1/3rd of americans feel confident about air travel security.

As someone with a background in security, I certainly can say that I feel that airport security is still very much a joke. The emphasis on examining luggage and not the people is an impossible logistical task and pointless. Besides, they're can't even do that right.

That said, the security lapses lead to such a minimal risk in my safety to the extent that it's not important. Personally, I feel that I (90% of the time) am a low-profile traveler; I frequent narrowbody aircraft on <1000mi routes. I'll admit that taking a transcon on a 767 makes me stop and consider the potential for trouble.

Maybe that shouldn't matter, though. I often travel to the largest cities in the world and realize that in the September 11 attacks, there were significantly more deaths of those on the ground than those in the air.

So, what would it take for you to be confident in air travel security?

For me:
  • Security checkpoints to be run by trained law enforcement officers
  • More security checks on airline and airport employees
  • Background checks on all travelers
  • Limits on use of cash to purchase full-fare and other expensive tickets
  • Consistent passenger/bag matching on domestic flights.
  • Screening of all checked luggage.
  • Face recognition technology at all security checkpoints
  • Central database of fingerprints for all travellers.

What do you think?

Cheers.

Daniel

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Old 11-02-2001, 02:08 PM   #3
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There is no such thing as security. If someone wants to do something, they can and will do it.

Face recognition technology at all security checkpoints
Central database of fingerprints for all travellers


What good will these possibly do? Face recognition technology, as it stands now, is a joke. Fingerprints are only usefull after the fact, as with all crime.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:08 PM   #4
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There is no such thing as security. If someone wants to do something, they can and will do it.

Face recognition technology at all security checkpoints
Central database of fingerprints for all travellers


What good will these possibly do? Face recognition technology, as it stands now, is a joke. Fingerprints are only usefull after the fact, as with all crime.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:11 PM   #5
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Face recognition technology is a joke? How so? You can certainly recognize people that you have a picture of, but no name to match with a ticket. Works like a charm.

What about someone that would like to travel under a different name to avoid detection? If (s)he travelled before under their own name, it'd be detected via the fingerprint verification. Fingerprinting and other biometric devices are commonly used for access restrictions as a proven technology.

The thought that anyone can do anything anyway, thus we shouldn't worry about security is absurd. I know that someone can steal my car if they want to. Does that mean that I should leave the top down, doors unlocked, alarm off, and keys in the ignition? By your logic, I should!

There is such a thing as security. You just have to know what you're doing.

Daniel
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:11 PM   #6
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Face recognition technology is a joke? How so? You can certainly recognize people that you have a picture of, but no name to match with a ticket. Works like a charm.

What about someone that would like to travel under a different name to avoid detection? If (s)he travelled before under their own name, it'd be detected via the fingerprint verification. Fingerprinting and other biometric devices are commonly used for access restrictions as a proven technology.

The thought that anyone can do anything anyway, thus we shouldn't worry about security is absurd. I know that someone can steal my car if they want to. Does that mean that I should leave the top down, doors unlocked, alarm off, and keys in the ignition? By your logic, I should!

There is such a thing as security. You just have to know what you're doing.

Daniel
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:15 PM   #7
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I never said that we should abandon (edit: or worry about) security. Please don't put words in my post.

I was pointing out that no matter what we do, or how many civil liberties we violate, we'll never be secure. It's absurd to think otherwise.

I would like to know how Face Recognition or Finger printing would have helped on Sept 11th.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: phule on 2001-11-02 13:16 ]</font>
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:15 PM   #8
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I never said that we should abandon (edit: or worry about) security. Please don't put words in my post.

I was pointing out that no matter what we do, or how many civil liberties we violate, we'll never be secure. It's absurd to think otherwise.

I would like to know how Face Recognition or Finger printing would have helped on Sept 11th.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: phule on 2001-11-02 13:16 ]</font>
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:17 PM   #9
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I like the policy that Israel takes with flight travel. Not only are there thing like background checks and screening of bags, but suspicious and “target” groups are interrogated for several minutes about where they are going, why they are going there, and who they are traveling with (and if it is two or more people, they split them up and compare stories). I know this sounds drastic and with recent accounts of racial profiling, illegal, but not only would this make other passengers that had previously felt uncomfortable riding with those of a group that “seems” more likely to commit a terrorist act more at easy, and also Israel has been very successful since this policy was created in stopping and preventing extremist acts.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:17 PM   #10
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I like the policy that Israel takes with flight travel. Not only are there thing like background checks and screening of bags, but suspicious and “target” groups are interrogated for several minutes about where they are going, why they are going there, and who they are traveling with (and if it is two or more people, they split them up and compare stories). I know this sounds drastic and with recent accounts of racial profiling, illegal, but not only would this make other passengers that had previously felt uncomfortable riding with those of a group that “seems” more likely to commit a terrorist act more at easy, and also Israel has been very successful since this policy was created in stopping and preventing extremist acts.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:37 PM   #11
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And, oh yeah, face recognition technology, like the technology that is used in over the 22,000 closed circuit television cameras in London, works wonderful.
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Old 11-02-2001, 02:37 PM   #12
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And, oh yeah, face recognition technology, like the technology that is used in over the 22,000 closed circuit television cameras in London, works wonderful.
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Old 11-03-2001, 01:38 PM   #13
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I'm not trying to be a dork here, but what about people like myself who don't have any fingerprints? Trying to use one biometric for all situations is doomed to fail.

If you want to use high-res cameras, that's OK, but from what I've seen of the facial biometrics, the error rates are way too high to be very useful.
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Old 11-03-2001, 01:38 PM   #14
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I'm not trying to be a dork here, but what about people like myself who don't have any fingerprints? Trying to use one biometric for all situations is doomed to fail.

If you want to use high-res cameras, that's OK, but from what I've seen of the facial biometrics, the error rates are way too high to be very useful.
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Old 11-03-2001, 01:43 PM   #15
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The reason for domestic air travel is convenience. If everyone needs an anal probe to fly, it stops being convenient and airport security is self-defeating.

What good do background checks do? Facial and/or fingerprint recognition? They only help you stop people you have a reasonable knowledge will commit a crime.

Oh, and all this repository of personal data just makes it that much easier for an abuse of power by whomever holds the information. We don't know of it happening, perhaps, but how many times has someone had a fingerprint of a "target" and found a way to reproduce that fingerprint and lay it down somewhere to implicate an innocent person? How many times will it happen in the future?

If you manage to take out the "advantage" of killing multiple people with one attack, by securing the cockpit and having an air marshall in the cabin, then you can minimize the "benefit" to someone to commit a crime in the air.

You may be happy to turn over your soul at the security checkpoint, but I'd rather keep mine, thanks. Scan my bags, x-ray me, but I'm a normal person -- let me through.
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Old 11-03-2001, 01:43 PM   #16
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The reason for domestic air travel is convenience. If everyone needs an anal probe to fly, it stops being convenient and airport security is self-defeating.

What good do background checks do? Facial and/or fingerprint recognition? They only help you stop people you have a reasonable knowledge will commit a crime.

Oh, and all this repository of personal data just makes it that much easier for an abuse of power by whomever holds the information. We don't know of it happening, perhaps, but how many times has someone had a fingerprint of a "target" and found a way to reproduce that fingerprint and lay it down somewhere to implicate an innocent person? How many times will it happen in the future?

If you manage to take out the "advantage" of killing multiple people with one attack, by securing the cockpit and having an air marshall in the cabin, then you can minimize the "benefit" to someone to commit a crime in the air.

You may be happy to turn over your soul at the security checkpoint, but I'd rather keep mine, thanks. Scan my bags, x-ray me, but I'm a normal person -- let me through.
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Old 11-04-2001, 02:59 PM   #17
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I'm not worried about hijackings at all anymore. No one will ever be able to successfully hijack a plane again. The 9/11 hijackers tried to pacify people by telling them everything will be alright. From now on, even if the hijackers really just want to land somewhere, all the passengers are going to go crazy and risk their lives in case they might be made a flying missile. I probably would too. Passengers even tackled that mentally handicapped guy who tried to run up to the cockpit.
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Old 11-04-2001, 02:59 PM   #18
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I'm not worried about hijackings at all anymore. No one will ever be able to successfully hijack a plane again. The 9/11 hijackers tried to pacify people by telling them everything will be alright. From now on, even if the hijackers really just want to land somewhere, all the passengers are going to go crazy and risk their lives in case they might be made a flying missile. I probably would too. Passengers even tackled that mentally handicapped guy who tried to run up to the cockpit.
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