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Old 03-27-2004, 05:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Delta7203
They bought the 717 so they could keep the training costs low and keep the cost of the flights low! What is so F'ing bad about that?

New planes do have problems...just like new windows versions do!!!!
Finally, we agree both in principle and specifically about this issue.

AirTran compromises safety to save money.
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Old 03-27-2004, 05:43 PM   #42
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But I never said that they compromise safety to save money, I just said that they bought the 717 so they could spend less money on training their current crews on a new type of equipment (the 717 is practically the same as a DC9). They also bought the 717 because it can be operated more cheaply (think I worded that right.) than a 736.

- John
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Old 03-27-2004, 08:18 PM   #43
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yeah your right baker, apparently AirTran is the only airline that thinks about making money in their business (since no other airline is). You are really kidding yourself and the rest of the readers who think you know what you are talking about if you think that an airline compromises safety by cutting back on maintenance. The new planes save on fuel and the amount of maintenance that they require is far less than the DC-9, that is how management was thinking when they ordered the 717. (no wonder your web site is going to pieces, you have no business sense at all) good thing having a web site is so cheap!!!!! The only good thing you have done for yourself is stir up a bunch of AirTran and airline employees to help create some activity on your deprived site. So in that matter...good job, as far as your knowledge of the airline industry (at least the maintenance side of it) I think an 8 year old understands more about it than you. You are very thick headed and will never understand how the aviation world performs.
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Old 04-15-2004, 10:45 AM   #44
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Oooops!

You mean all sorts of things are happening all over the place all the time with the big boys too?! Who'da thunk?

Quote:
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published on: 04/14/04


MIAMI — Five passengers wrestled a drunken man off a Delta Air Lines jet after he threatened before takeoff to kill someone, according to federal charges filed Wednesday.

Meanwhile, a small fire broke out Wednesday on a Delta plane at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, but no one was hurt. Airport authorities said the pilot received an indicator about the fire in the right engine of the MD-80 jet before Flight 209 could take off for Atlanta. The airport fire department extinguished it.
My main point was the fire, the fight is just extra comic relief
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Old 04-15-2004, 04:00 PM   #45
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You mean to tell me that a Delta jet actually had a fire on one of their planes, not just a computer that burnt up internally and caused a funny smell in the cabin????????
Wow, what kind of airline are they running over there? Why cant they have perfect flights everyday on everyone of their aircraft? Baker when you figure that one out you will be a rich man.
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Old 04-15-2004, 06:08 PM   #46
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Umm...if memory serves me, I think that is our 2nd or 3th (maybe 4th) fire this year.

- John
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Old 04-29-2004, 09:52 PM   #47
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just bought a ticket MDW-ATL-DFW?!

This is my first time flying Airtran and I freaked out when I found this site. I put my wife on a flight in a few days. These 717s seem like a problem. What is Airtran flying between Chicago-Atl-DFW?

I was on an AmericaWest flight where we had to do an ER landing and it never got reported though we blew two tires, and the door flew off damaging the plane. Our pilot saved the day.

Worried about AirTran though and after purchase heard some bad things about repairs at the MDW location.
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Old 04-30-2004, 06:37 AM   #48
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MDW said:
Quote:
Worried about AirTran though and after purchase heard some bad things about repairs at the MDW location.
Hey MDW dont worry your flight will be a pleasant and uneventful one I sure. I work on the 717's personally and I have to tell you that it is a awsome aircraft to have. Most of the problems you have read about here at ITYT (the guys who run the site hate AirTran) anyways... most of the bugs have been addressed and fixed with much hard work from us and Boeing together mind you. It is a brand new plane, but has proven itself to be very reliable. I would very much appriciate you coming back in here when your trip is over and letting us know how it went!!! Until then dont worry about a thing and enjoy your flight.
MDW said:
Quote:
I was on an AmericaWest flight where we had to do an ER landing and it never got reported though we blew two tires, and the door flew off damaging the plane. Our pilot saved the day.
By the way if you fly enough chances are (no matter what airline) you will be on a flight that has some un-scheduled events, flying will never, ever, ever be perfected to the point that a machine or a computer will never break....maybe just a better failure rate.
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Old 04-30-2004, 08:17 AM   #49
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Re: just bought a ticket MDW-ATL-DFW?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDWflyer
This is my first time flying Airtran and I freaked out when I found this site. I put my wife on a flight in a few days. These 717s seem like a problem. What is Airtran flying between Chicago-Atl-DFW?

I was on an AmericaWest flight where we had to do an ER landing and it never got reported though we blew two tires, and the door flew off damaging the plane. Our pilot saved the day.

Worried about AirTran though and after purchase heard some bad things about repairs at the MDW location.
Not to worry MDWflyer, the AirTran portion of this site is a complete farce. The creator, webmaster, and administrators of this website are all from Austin, TX and have a strong bias toward Continental and Southwest. The main reason for their deep hatred of AirTran, and all the subsequent propaganda, is because AirTran is such a wonderful juggernaut of a product that they feel threatens their hometeam Southwest (not to mention legacy carriers like Continental). Just watch the movie "Tucker" and you'll understand their motivation. Whenever the status quo of the "entrenched" gets turned on it's side by a new kid on the block doings things more efficiently and more affordably, there is a panic. That panic is the AirTran portion of this website

That's why myself (a frequent AirTran customer), two AirTran mechanics, an AirTran pilot, and a Delta pilot came here: to set the record straight from the inside out and to counterbalance the propaganda with the truth. dbaker, the creator of this site and author of all the libel contained herein, is nothing more than a consultant from Texas with a penchant for Continental and Southwest who gets his information from reading magazines, websites, and government reports. We who defend AirTran, however, actually buy the tickets and fly the routes and cast the proxy votes and maintain the aircraft and pilot the planes and fly other airlines' planes out of the same airports and have hands-on knowledge of AirTran.

Now that I've cleared that up for you, back to your question. With the exception of 2 new Airbus A320s leased from Ryan for the Las Vegas, San Fransisco, and L.A. routes (to be replaced with brand new 737-700s later this year) AirTran currently operates a uniform fleet of new 717-200 117-seaters on all other routes. AirTran has one of the youngest fleets on Earth. There were a few minor electrical glitches on the 717, which is completely normal for the launch customer to encounter with the introduction of a new model. The manufacturer works very closely with the launch customer during the introduction of the model to iron out all the wrinkles, like Boeing has done recently with AirTran and the 717 and just like they did with Southwest and the 737-700 back in 1998.

I have flown the 717 with AirTran many many times over the past few years, and I usually have my 4-year old son and my expecting wife with me. It is a wonderful aircraft, very quiet, very efficient, very reliable, and very powerful thanks to the new BMW-Rolls Royce BR715-A/C1-30s. I have yet to encounter the first delay, the first mechanical problem, the first piece of lost luggage, the first overbooking with AirTran and the 717. Not one

Very friendly and knowledgeable personnel, very talented and personable flight crews, brand new aircraft, and wonderful prices. I think you'll enjoy your flight as much as I do mine, and then I hope you'll become a regular customer and spead the word to all your friends. Maybe you'll also find yourself back here defending the wonderful airline that is AirTran against the propagandists who run this site. Welcome to the frey
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Old 04-30-2004, 09:58 AM   #50
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MDWflyer:

I am the other mechanic for Airtran on this site. Please take what you have read about our airline with a grain of salt. I can assure you that everything with this airline and the 717 is on the up and up. I have worked here for 9 years and have worked on the 717 since the very begining, it is a great aircraft, very reliable a dream to work on, very comfortable to fly on. There is not a plane we have that i would not fly on and there is not plane that I would not put my family on. Do some research on the launch carriers of other types of aircraft b757, b767, b737-700 and you will find that a new aircraft has its bugs and problems. Flight test that are performed to get a plane certified is different from flying the plane 8 to 10 hrs a day 7 days a week 365 days a year. Please do return and let us know how your flight went.
MDWflyer said:
Quote:
Worried about AirTran though and after purchase heard some bad things about repairs at the MDW location.
What repairs have you heard about. Because we do not have maintenance in MDW. So If a plane has a problem that cannot be put on MEL, we send our own mechanics to do the repairs.
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Old 04-30-2004, 10:48 AM   #51
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Thanks

Thank you for the information. No idea if what I heard about MDW is for real. Think it was one of those “they used to be Valujet” responses. I wish you had a direct MDW-DFW myself, but the low-fare Chicago to Dallas directs seem to have disappeared. I forget who it was that offered cheap rates (National and Vanguard perhaps?) but they went under a few years ago, and the cost of a Dallas coach ticket went up.

How does it work when you have no mech. at an airport? I have seen a lot on the "scandal" of outsourcing, and the recent problems with smaller planes being over-weight and mech. problems with calibration due to improper training.

Therefore, the 717 are not old refurb. junk planes from the Turkish? What was that about? These are new to this airline. Is it ture they all have Sat Radio? Very cool.
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:39 PM   #52
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MDWflyer:
Quote:
How does it work when you have no mech. at an airport?
That is a very good question Mr. Flyer. Of course we have a very large maintenace grouping in our hub Atl, and Headquarters in MCO(Orlando). Some of our other maintenace bases are in BWI (Baltimore), TPA(Tampa), FLL, BOS. Usually most of the problems you recieve during flight operations are minor in nature and can be deferred (per a MEL Minimuim Equipment List) until it can be fixed. (By the way the MEL book is made by the manufacturer (Boeing) and approved by the FAA). Now in the rare occasions when a problem had to be fixed before it can leave....we have many agreements with many airlines (kinda a "i'll look at your plane in ATL if it breaks if you look at ours in MDW"). This of course is only for minor issues. If the problem requires a little more TLC then the Airline just send a couple of us "mechanics" (usually from ATL since we fly to all destinations)with the parts and manuals to get the plane back in-service.

MDW said:
Quote:
Therefore, the 717 are not old refurb. junk planes from the Turkish? What was that about?
If you look back at the many previous articles you'll find more than enough discussions about every...single..single.."event" that has every taken place at AirTran...and for some strange reason we have to talk about ValueJet in this "AirTran" forum also?????????????????
MDW said:
Quote:
Is it ture they all have Sat Radio? Very cool.
Not yet, but very soon. We have already made the deal for the XM radio to be installed in every seat on every aircraft. I'm sure the 737's will get it installed before delivery, but the 717's are already flying so its a little harder to schedule this installation of the nessesary equipment and yet still fly the airplane, but dont worry we'll get it done as quick as possible because with the exception of having a T.V. in the back of every seat (which we dont have) having XM radio is a great thing to help pass the time during a flight. Have a good flight and keep us informed.
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Old 04-30-2004, 12:52 PM   #53
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Nice to Know

MDWflyer, you obviously have a very level head on your shoulders. It's rewarding to know there are flyers out there who can see right through the propaganda on the AirTran warning page of this site

One of dbaker's favorite bag of tricks is to deceive everyone into thinking that AirTran is just ValuJet with a changed name. But he really hates it when I point out that ValuJet was an airline headquartered in Atlanta operating those old Turkish DC-9s that you refer to while AirTran has always been an airline headquarted in Orlando which used to operate 737-200s. Yes, at the time of the VJ592 DC-9 crash AirTran was a completely seperate airline headquartered in a completely different state flying a completely different line of aircraft.

After ValuJet's 1996 crash and subsequent grounding, corporate shakeup, and restructuring, they went into talks with AirTran about a possible merger. Mike Meier of Airsider.net puts it best:
Quote:
AirTran is the successor of the troubled airline ValueJet...The company was completely restructured and redesigned from scratch. Today, AirTran Airways is one of America's largest low-fare airlines - employing more than 5,000 Crew members...The airline's main hub is at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport, the world's busiest airport, where it is the second largest carrier...
Very well put. The current AirTran is a "successor" formed after a merger with all new leadership, a new corporate culture, and a whole new modus operandi which have proven extremely safe, efficient, and successful. And AirTran is still based in Orlando although their main hub is Atlanta

Speaking of hubs, AirTran is currently expanding outward from the hub-and-spoke concentration in Atlanta to a grid of more spread out mini-hubs. Atlanta will always be one, Baltimore is becoming their mini-hub for the Northeast (with Philadelphia a close 2nd), and recent expansion into Dallas/Ft. Worth has that shaping up as an AirTran's Southwest mini-hub. As such, you can probably expect direct flights between Dallas and Chicago in the not-so-distant future

Since they're the experts, B717mech or Jetmech717 will have to fill you in on the procedures of mechanics at other airports. Although our "frequent-flier" webmaster loves to pretend he knows more about the mechanisms of AirTran's 717 fleet than the actual mechanics who work on those very aircraft. Hilarious I do know however that AirTran mechanics have received, on several occasions, the FAA's highest honor for safety and training in the coveted Diamond Award.

AirTran outsources the same amount as all other airlines, that's just common accross the industry. What's reassuring is that AirTran keeps it's outsourcing under much higher scrutiny than was the case with the whole ValuJet/SabreTech fiasco. ValuJet's lax oversight of SabreTech was the direct cause of VJ592, and it's good to know that AirTran doesn't operate that way. I believe the smaller plane/calibration problem you're speaking of is with much smaller turboprop commuter planes among regional feeders. AirTran is a much larger operation than that: the 2nd largest carrier at the world's busiest airport operating 75 brand new 117-seat jet aircraft with 100 more 737-700 and -800s on the way.

Glad that you recognize that dbaker (the webmaster of this site) is completely full of crap with the AirTran warning page. We've asked him on several occasions to step up to the plate in respect for the truth and correct the lies that we've proven to be false, but he just refuses to do so. I guess it'll take a libel lawsuit from AirTran to force that, but that's probably exactly what he's hoping for in an effort to sling the propaganda on an even more widespread stage. I'm pretty confident that AirTran is readily aware of this site but just won't give it the time of day, mostly because posters like us are already doing a fine job of shooting holes through the propaganda

You're exactly right, dbaker is nothing short of a liar: AirTran doesn't have any old refurbished DC-9s from Turkey. That was ValuJet. AirTran has nothing but brand new Boeing 717-200 aircraft (plus 2 new leased Airbus A320s which will be replaced with 100 brand new 737-700s and -800s beginning this June). Those photos on the warning page aren't even of AirTran, they were of ValuJet. And although dbaker wants you to think there are five or six seperate incidents, most of the photos are simply different shots of the same incident. He also labels a fan blade seperation while taxiing on the ground a "crash." We've pointed out all of these lies to dbaker over and over again to no avail, but at least we've exposed him for what he really is

AirTran has just begun retrofitting all of it's 717s with XM Satellite Radio, not real sure when they'll be finished with the entire fleet. All the new 737s will be equipped from the get-go. And in true AirTran fashion, the service is free

Enjoy your flight and welcome to AirTran!
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Old 05-01-2004, 03:01 AM   #54
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Re: Nice to Know

Quote:
Originally Posted by haze
Speaking of hubs, AirTran is currently expanding outward from the hub-and-spoke concentration in Atlanta to a grid of more spread out mini-hubs. Atlanta will always be one, Baltimore is becoming their mini-hub for the Northeast (with Philadelphia a close 2nd), and recent expansion into Dallas/Ft. Worth has that shaping up as an AirTran's Southwest mini-hub. As such, you can probably expect direct flights between Dallas and Chicago in the not-so-distant future
Being from Socal/AZ, I'd like you to stop calling Dallas a "southwest minihub". Dallas is not southwest. If Airtran sets up a hub in PHX/LAX/SAN, then you can call it a SW minihub

AirTran 717 mechanics: How similar is the MD-95 to the 717?
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Old 05-01-2004, 06:19 AM   #55
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Mduell ask's:
Quote:
AirTran 717 mechanics: How similar is the MD-95 to the 717?
The B717 is the MD-95, the name was changed with the merger. The only thing is that Boeing changed a couple of things here and there but it is the same plans that MD had already created. hope that helps Mr. Duell
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Old 05-01-2004, 12:36 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetmech717
Mduell ask's:
Quote:
AirTran 717 mechanics: How similar is the MD-95 to the 717?
The B717 is the MD-95, the name was changed with the merger. The only thing is that Boeing changed a couple of things here and there but it is the same plans that MD had already created. hope that helps Mr. Duell
Interesting, I guess we're (my university) training AirTran pilots: http://www.captprogram.org/
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Old 05-01-2004, 02:49 PM   #57
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MDuell, I'm not sure what you mean about your web page there?
Looks like they are talking about a Pilot who wants to fly the MD-90 not the MD-95(B717). Also they talk about a md-90 but have a cockpit pic of a 737-700 (or at least a new gen).
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Old 05-03-2004, 11:55 AM   #58
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I Here Ya, But...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mduell
Being from Socal/AZ, I'd like you to stop calling Dallas a "southwest minihub". Dallas is not southwest. If Airtran sets up a hub in PHX/LAX/SAN, then you can call it a SW minihub
I've lived in SoCAL myself, so I know exactly where you're coming from. But I guess we should call up Southwest Airlines headquarters in Dallas and tell them to change their name, write the Mavs and Stars and Rangers and tell them to switch divisions, appeal to the WAC conference to give Rice and UTEP and SMU the boot?

I know Texas is about as Southwest as Virginia is Southeast, but I guess that's just what the talking heads up in NYC have established as the norm. The "Southwest" stretches from Texas to California and the "Southeast" stretches from Louisiana all the way up to Virginia. Technically speaking, the Southwest should be split into the mid-south, the desert southwest, and the Pacific southwest. As such, the Southeast should be split into the mid-south, the costal southeast, and the mid-Atlantic. I hear ya though

So let me be a little more specific: the coastal Southeast's AirTran has begun a mini-hub at mid-south Southwest's DFW
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Old 07-04-2004, 03:07 AM   #59
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I first came across this web site about a year and-a-half ago. I don't even remember if it had message board, or just news flashes and comments by Mr. Dave Baker. Of course the highlight of the site was, and still is his attitude toward AirTran.

I just ignored it at a time and this is my first visit since. I am very glad to see that there are AirTran employees here that can shine a light on the truth of the subject. Especially I'm glad that there are customers like Mr. Haze, who speaks so highly of AirTran.

I deal with people who think that they are experts in aviation every day.

I had passenger call flight attendant and tell her during taxi for take off that he worked for Boeing and that by looking at our right aileron position out of his window, he assured her that "the aircraft would roll sharply to the right after take off." Of course that alone told us that "Mr. Boeing" had no idea of how flight controls on 717 work.

And of course you haven't flown 717 enough if you were never told during taxi that there is a think smoke coming out of your engines, especially at night. It is actually a super fine mist coming out of the oil breather which creates an illusion of smoke, especially with logo light shining on it at night, and is perfectly normal.

I can list stories like that all day. The truth is that 717 is extremely well built aircraft. It has some of the most advanced safety futures not found on most modern aircraft flying today. Guess what though, aircraft is a machine. And like any machine sometimes some of its components will malfunction. And that's why all aircraft have redundant systems. Sort of like that PCDU (Power Control and Distribution Unit) failure which was the basis of this thread. There are 3 PCDUs installed on 717 and they did what they were designed to do--reconfigure electrical system to power the aircraft. And as far as smell of electrical smoke... Well you can get that from you household hear-dryer if you leave it on to long and it burn itself out. The crew leaned to the side of safety by evacuating the aircraft even if they didn't have to.

Now, I've flown for other airlines before and in variety of different aircraft. But I'm very much impressed with 717's reliability, and with the quality and attention to detail of AirTran maintenance personnel.

Most of our recently hired pilots are furloughed from legacy carriers such as US Air, United, American, etc. and all of them would back me up on this. And trust me...pilots are usually the first ones to complain about their airline.

Unfortunately for Dave Baker, AirTran is here to stay. Our management is one of the best in the industry and they've proven it, by taking a failing airline and turning it in to total success.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:08 PM   #60
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RE:travelers

the companies offer a comprehensive range of aviation special services. airport executive lounges; and passenger services such as wheelchair and unaccompanied minor assistance are playing vital role and it appears to me that they handled this situation appropriately.

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