Applying for AirTran

[JessK]

I am planning on going to an open house for AirTran for a flight attendant position. As I read through all these posts, I'll admit I am torn on whether to go or not. My parents have flown on Airtran and they said that the flight was fine, minus the fact that it was a really bumpy ride. My mother in law wont fly anything but AirTran. I understand that there are risks taken when working in the aviation field, but I dont want to walk myself into a guarenteed death bed. Not trying to start a new arguement, I just wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts or opinions that might help make my decision a little easier.

Thanks!!
Jess

[Delta7203]

Jess...don't worry about applying to work at AirTran. They are just as safe as any other airline.

Good luck with your career!

- John

[jetmech717]

JessK,
I can't help you with your problem and I'm trying not to be offended by it!!
B717mech and myself are mechanics for AirTran and take extrodinary pride and proffesionalism in or work. If you dont want to be a flight attendant for AirTran because of a "bumpy" flight than I invite you to try other airlines who seem to avoid the bumpy airways. I will put our aircraft and our team against "any" airline out there on safety and performance. good luck in your career desicion, and staying out of a "Deathbed".

[JessK]

Of course, after posting on this forum, i found another forum that completly changed my view for the better on applying for AirTran. After reading posts from flight attendants for AirTran, I am now thrilled to even have the opportunity to apply for a job that employs so many wonderful people. I have never seen so many people as passionate about their jobs as the ones I have spoken to from AirTran. Thank you jetmech717 and delta7203 for your responses!

[Doko Deska]

I'm not sure if I can add or subtract, but before you get all giddy about working for AirTRash, I need to remind you of a few fact.

All these "friendly employees" you keep referring to have worked without a contract for two years now. I don't see any change in this for another year or so. Also, keep in mind that you are getting a whopping 18 bucks an hour, 75 or so hour per month limit. That's not a whole lot of money.

Some other fine points. This airline merged, bought out, whatever legal term you want to use with ValuJet. In fact, from most veteren ValuJet employees (Very few of these brainwashed morons left...), AirTran and ValuJet is the same company. Still the same "Union Busting" a-holes they were in '95.

Go back one generation and you'll see Eastern's underbelly. That's right, AirTran is Eastern's grandson. The company is in it's early teens, and pretty much acts like a 10 year old would: Only cares about itself, and is very disrepectful of the other older airlines around it. Yes, I'm referring to Delta. The Easter / Delta feud is worse than the "Hatfields and the Mccoys". You need to think long and hard about where your loyalties lie, because they will test those loyalties on a daily basis, at 30 thousand feet.

Contrary to popular opinion, AirTran is predominantly non-union. They have around 6000 employees now, the Ramp, Reservation and Gate agents, among other admin employees comprise close to 3000 of those employees. That's a huge chunk of AirTran, and the Teamster's know it.

A union contract means millions to the Teamsters. If they successfully organize a vote, which may be later this year, chances are likely that they will succeed; however, given who won the election (ie. Bush), the election is not a slam dunk for the employees. I predict that if a vote were to happen tomorrow, AirTran's management would win the vote.

Personally, I worked the ramp at Hartsfield / Jackson international airport, and it was time for me to leave. AirTran runs a very tight ship, and most people who stay for longer than a year or so have been brainwashed into chanting the AirTran motto. The fact of the matter is, that AirTran looks at the short-term rewards, and fails to see the long term effects. You can't really blame them, Eastern did the same thing in the late early 80's. They learned nothing from their dead Grandfather, which is typical of a spoiled rotten rich kid. Some industry experts claim that they are leading Delta by the nose. I disagree, at the young age of 10 or 11, they can't reach the old man's nose. Instead, they take hold of the "family jewels", which in any man's opinion is flat out disrespectful.

Most of the pilots will tell you that their recruiter warned them about AirTrash. Basically, gone are the days of company loyalty. Most of the industry uses a seniority system to keep and cheaply reward wanted employees.

Laughably, the average seniority at AirTran is around 2 years. Very rarely do you see anyone survive past their two year anniversary without getting fired or quitting. I think AirTran likes it that way. The Ramp, for example has the largest turnover rate, not only for the company, but for the industry. As a result, pay raises can be compensated by new blood, which is preferred on the ramp (It's a very hard job! In the weather all the time, and the bags don't get any lighter!)

Hope this helps... I'm not saying that you have to take anything I say with a grain of salt! At 1.5 years, it was time for me to go. I don't hate AirTran, I just hope they learn to RESPECT their employees. The "nice employee" myth is just that.. a myth.

[B717mech]

Give me a break. Wow and you don't hate AirTran, how could this be??

[Doko Deska]

No. I don't hate AirTran. I wish you the best of luck.

I'm a realist. And I'm not alone in my opinions. AirTran leads through fear and intimidation, and you are obviously branwashed!

Sorry.. Have a good career...... Hope you stay 30 years!! Get the watch, and everything!!!!!!

[B717mech]

Airtran is a great company. I think you were probably fired and are looking for revenge. If the flight attendants would grow up and realize there job is not as important as pilots or mechs. then maybe they can reach an agreement.

[jetmech717]

Doko:

Some other fine points. This airline merged, bought out, whatever legal term you want to use with ValuJet. In fact, from most veteren ValuJet employees (Very few of these brainwashed morons left...), AirTran and ValuJet is the same company. Still the same "Union Busting" a-holes they were in '95.

I dont think you will find any company that "wishes" to have a union represent there employees. Its just always been that was. Now many companies may "get along" with the unions they have but that doesnt mean that they want them there,

Doko:

Laughably, the average seniority at AirTran is around 2 years. Very rarely do you see anyone survive past their two year anniversary without getting fired or quitting. I think AirTran likes it that way. The Ramp, for example has the largest turnover rate, not only for the company, but for the industry. As a result, pay raises can be compensated by new blood, which is preferred on the ramp (It's a very hard job! In the weather all the time, and the bags don't get any lighter!)

I'm not going to bash ramp because we as mechanics need and work with them everyday, and I also am friends with alot of them...We also just hired a a new mech that worked his way up from the ramp. Working the ramp is not something you want to make a career out of. You eventually want to become a sup, mgr, esc... You should not want to be throwing bags your whole life. Trust me we have alot of mechs that got their license' and moved up from ramp. Now we have mechs that are getting their pilots license' and they will move up to that next. As far as the weather and elements complaint...brother we can only fit (3) planes in the hangar at a time. We have an average of 15 planes overnight in ATL everynight, and I'm out there at night when its the coldest and if its raining, sleeting, freezing whatever then I'm right there with you in it fixing whatever needs to be fixed, and I cant wear gloves. I knew this when I became an aircraft tech, and I still love my job. Every job has good and bad. Thats just one of the bads. Oh well I wish you luck in whatever new career you chose.

[Doko Deska]

I'm glad to hear that he finally got a job with the mechanics. It's been a long time for him. I wish him well.

There have been a lot of speculation and rumors going around regarding why I left AirTran. The simple answer is, it was time for me to go. AirTran doesn't really care about loyalty. They care about profits; short term profits. Your fearless leaders, namely Joe and Bob, are very close to retirement. Some may argue that the new Boeing purchase is proof that they are indeed looking toward the future; however, the MAIN reason that the Boeing/AirTran deal went through is because ValuJet begged and pleaded with Boeing to allow them a finanical extension, so that they could regroup and make good on their financial promises. I had to laugh when I found out that Boeing was no longer making the 717. That was becaue the ONLY airline that made a long term committment to those low-quality airplanes was AirTran.

My critics will argue that the reason AirTran bought the 717 is because the outdated DC-9's were unsafe and needed replacing. That is partially the reason, but my critics fail to address the reason the 717 was chosen. Boeing forced their hand, so to speak. The 717 was cheap to build and engineer. In making the deal, they saved a great deal of money in research and design. After the huge profit margin gained in 2003, AirTran finally had enough money to invest in an airplane (the 737) that was tried and true in the market.

AirTran growth is essential to capturing short term opportunities in the industry, not long term. I have a theory as to why Managment has failed to grant the flight attendents a contract that both parties can live with. The money that they could have invested into their employees are going into new airplanes. Opportunities to make money for the stockholders takes priority over their employees. AirTran employees are among the LOWEST PAID in the industry, and it's that kind of disrespect that will eventually vote in a union for the ramp, gate and reservation agents.

I like the fact that you find my comments funny; however, I don't find disrespect funny. I got disrepsected on the ramp and in my paycheck. Free flying?!?! With 59 dollar fares one way to popular cities, I didn't give up much by leaving. Ask anyone who pays for and flies AirTran on a regualr basis, and you'll discover that when things go wrong, the only way they get the respect they deserve is by complaining!

I read some of your comments, and I understand that you are married to the company, and some of my comments are offensive, much like someone disrespecting a loving spouse. I appologize if my comments offend you; but I'm not alone in my opinions.

[Delta7203]

WOW...I think you are the most disgruntled AirTran (-Trash...w/e floats your boat...or lifts your plane?!) employee I have ever heard of. Not that it means much...me being around Delta Employees 99.9% of the time but I was just commenting.

- John

[Doko Deska]

If the flight attendants would grow up and realize there job is not as important as pilots or mechs. then maybe they can reach an agreement.

When asked how he viewed teams, Gordon Bethune, CEO and chairman of the board of Continental Airlines, Inc. (www.continental.com) responded, "Running an airline is the biggest team sport there is. We are like a wristwatch - lots of different parts, but the whole has value only when we all work TOGETHER. It has no value when any part fails. So we are not a cross - functional team, we're a company of multifunctions that has value when we all work cooperatively - pilots, FLIGHT ATTENDANTS, gate agents, airport agents, mechanics, and reservation agents. And not to understand that about doing business means you're going to FAIL. Lots of people failed because they don't get it."

"It's like basic human nature: If you take someone for granted or treat them LIKE THEY HAVE LESS VALUE THAN SOMEONE ELSE, they'll go to extraordinary lenghts to show you you're wrong. People who try to manage our business and ascribe various values to different functions and treat some with disdain because they ARE EASY TO REPLACE, might some day find that the watch doesn't work - it might be the smallest part that's broken, but the whole watch doesn't work."

B717mech... the next time you decide to answer a posting and write something stupid, do us all a favor and think first! The flight attendants matter, and it's about time they got the respect they deserve.

[jetmech717]

doko:

I had to laugh when I found out that Boeing was no longer making the 717. That was becaue the ONLY airline that made a long term committment to those low-quality airplanes was AirTran.

You obviously dont know the 717 as much as you think you do! It will run circles around our brand new 737's as far as technology goes and basically is a much, much more advanced A/C all the way around. And from a techs point of veiw it is more friendly to work on also.

Your fearless leaders, namely Joe and Bob, are very close to retirement.

Joe still has a few years left and Bob isnt going anywhere for awhile, he is being groomed to take over when Joe leaves.

My critics will argue that the reason AirTran bought the 717 is because the outdated DC-9's were unsafe and needed replacing. That is partially the reason, but my critics fail to address the reason the 717 was chosen. Boeing forced their hand, so to speak. The 717 was cheap to build and engineer. In making the deal, they saved a great deal of money in research and design.

VJ made the deal with McDonald Douglas for the MD-95 not with Boeing. The only thing that kept the B717 from being popular was because MD made it and Boeing hated having this "bastard" plane in their fleet. Politics man its all politics.

[B717mech]

Doko Deska said:

B717mech... the next time you decide to answer a posting and write something stupid, do us all a favor and think first! The flight attendants matter, and it's about time they got the respect they deserve.

I never said they did not matter. They have an important job. To get respect you must give respect, Lets see here an arbitrator that was agreed upon by the company and the union came up with a good deal for both. The company accepted the proposal and the union would not even let the members vote on it. The reason was that the union commity thinks that the younger F/A's would only look at the money and not anything else. So they were afraid it would pass the vote. There Union would not even hold any meetings to explain the good the bad and the ugly on the contract. This shows ZERO respect to thhe members. The union also scheduled and informational picket for 1 week then they only had enough people show up for one day, no one else even wanted to. One union member on the commity was removed from the commity then kicked out of the union because of the crap she pulled. The flight attendants want us the teamsters to back them up. We said we would do that only if they let the members vote on the proposal. If the members vote it down, then that would be different and we would back them. They told our union hell no we will not let them vote on it. THEY ARE AGAINST EVERYONE AT AIRTRAN.

[Doko Deska]

I've seen the impressive cockpit on the 717 and it's a lot of flash. Nice looking. Almost as nice looking as the cockpit in the 777. The engines are bigger, big deal!

If the 717 is such a great airplane, then explain why Boeing is no longer making them. Some people may say that the industry is flooded with empty aircraft already. Supply is outrunning demand. I don't think so. A lot of other airlines are looking to replace their aging fleet. Why didn't they choose the 717?

You mentioned politics, you said

VJ made the deal with McDonald Douglas for the MD-95 not with Boeing. The only thing that kept the B717 from being popular was because MD made it and Boeing hated having this "bastard" plane in their fleet. Politics man its all politics.

Obviously you don't know as much about politics as you think you do. The only deal that VJ made was with the devil, when they opted to buy those thirty year old DC-9's. Their business plan was to generate cash, create a profit margin, sell stock in the company and expand into already profitable markets. One big obsticle to emerging companies in the Aviation industry is its barriers to entry. Startup costs are a huge concern, and the second biggest concern is employee compensation,which is typcially the largest expense. They overcame the barriers, by paying a lousy 6 bucks or so an hour, on average, wiith very few benefits. The Startup costs were diverted slightly, by buying other airlines old junker planes, and they avioded a mechanics' union by outsourcing their maintenance. They made a deal with Boeing, to buy the new 717's, which is a cheap, updated version of the DC-9. VJ made a deal with Boeing because of the fact that their airplanes were cheap and easy to come by. AirTran had no choice but to honor the deal VJ inked long, long ago.

[jetmech717]

Well Doko I guess we could go back and forth for awhile on how we feel about the 717...although I have worked on all types of A/C so I believe I would know a good A/C from a bad one. Thats ok though you have very strong feeling towards AirTran from your situation. I wish you could go work for another airline and tell me how great they are and they always think of the employees first and they fly the best planes and not a single person is ever mad at them and everyone loves and agrees with them. I will be waiting for you to give me the name of this airline because that will be the one that just may make me think twice about being a A/C tech for AirTran Airways.

[Doko Deska]

I wouldn't call my feelings for AirTran "Strong", I would call them realistic.

I can't tell you of a single Airline that has a perfect flying record and has 0 customer complaints; however, I can tell you of a company who has the worst safety record in the industry. I can tell you of a company, who deliberately avoided a mechanics' union by hiring an outside vendor to do their maintenance, and swears up and down that they were not at fault when their "Critter" flight 592 crashed into the everglades. I can point to a few websites dedicated to perserving the memory of those passengers and crew members. I can also point to an airline in existance today, trying its hardest to forget those people, and to distance itself as far as it can from the tragedy that was, at the very least, 100 percent aviodable!!! Can you name that airline?

I can only name one airline, who is predominantly non-union. I can remember back in the early 1980's, when Eastern's unions negotiated contract after contract, and this airline matched them dollar for dollar, effectively avoiding a union for themselves. In fact, when Eastern's unions made consessions, this airline gave everyone a raise across the board. That same year, the employees of that airline bought an airplane, and gave it to their airline. This airline is at least 75 years old, and is wise beyond it's years, and has seen upstarts like AirTran come and go. Can you name that airline?

[B717mech]

I can tell you of a company, who deliberately avoided a mechanics' union by hiring an outside vendor to do their maintenance,

You worked here how long 1 1/2 years and you know everything there is to know about ValuJet/AirTran? What do you do now? You speak so highly of a company that lost 5.5 billion last year. they are constanly losing money trying to compete with us. Don't you think that if Delta (whoopps I named the airline) could get rid of us they would? They can't, Simplifares, lets see what does it resemble AirTran's business plan, except it takes 2 or 3 managers at delta to do what one manager does here. Delta is good at one thing loosing Money. I could not begin to tell you how many Delta mechanics and pilots are begging for a job here. We have hired several and most of them say the same thing "I like working here. By the way once Delta pilots took pay cuts our top captains make almost as much now.

[jetmech717]

Doko:

I can tell you of a company, who deliberately avoided a mechanics' union by hiring an outside vendor to do their maintenance, and swears up and down that they were not at fault when their "Critter" flight 592 crashed into the everglades.

Doko I really dont want to have to go through all this again. Please go back and read the past threads and you will find all the debating your little heart needs. We have had this convo already with a few misguided people. But real quick I have to ask you how did VJ having their "heavy maint" not "line maint" contracted out (which by the way is basically what AirTran and every other airline is doing today) how do you bring into play that they were avoiding a union???? Do you know what you are even talking about? The case is over, the courts decided! As far as liability VJ was cleared! Now whether or not they had picked a responsible vender thats a different story. I can promise you that they do a better job at looking at the companies past history and maint practices a little better now. Hey ramp just had a rebid so maybe you can come back and work again since you want to stay in the loop so bad.

[Doko Deska]

I've been reading the threads, and thinking to myself that you guys are totally brainwashed into thinking that you actually work for a company that cares about your welfare!

I like to use a boxing analogy. AirTran isn't the only airline Delta has sparred with over the years. In the 80's it was Eastern Airlines, and after about 20 or so rounds (years), Delta earned a TKO (some may argue that Eastern knocked themselves out). In the early 90's, it was ValuJet (the airline that set THEMSELVES on fire). Now, it's AirTran. If it weren't for the 911 tragedy, Delta would still be doing business as usual, but times are a changing, and Delta (according to many analysts in the business)has a solid plan for long term survival.

The Ramp, Reservation, and Gate agents deserve a union at AirTran. The management in place needs to stop intimidating their employees and start treating them with respect; not only because it's the right thing to do, but it's a good business strategy for long-term survival. I predict that you may see a lot more Delta / ASA employees make the move to AirTran. You called me disgruntled?!?!?! Who do you think AirTran's hiring when they hire ex Delta employees? Model employees? The cream of the crop? haha... don't make me laugh. Their disdain for AirTran makes my rants look like compliments!