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Old 09-26-2003, 01:56 PM   #1
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Maybe this is an obvious question...

This might be an obvious question that has been covered, but please excuse me because I am a newcomer here who has tried to catch up with the talks here.

Why is it that the only people who have anything positive to say about airtran or defend the airline are those that admit to either be employed by airtran (jetmech, b717mech, flair) or those that are investors and live in the atlanta area (haze)?

I have never flown airtran or valujet (maybe I flew them once in florida but if I am not sure, but I used to travel there a lot) that I can remember and I don't really care since I mainly travel internationally. But I didn't know there was so much controversy over these guys either. I just hope that nobody gets hurt. And I also hope that you guys stop trying to convince eachother of your side of the argument because you never will.

If you asked the employees of Enron a few years ago if the company was corrupt and if it was going to fold, they would have laughed and then ripped you to shreads. So the fact that all these airtran employees and investors call dbaker crazy makes me chuckle just a little bit.
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Old 09-26-2003, 02:04 PM   #2
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Re: Maybe this is an obvious question...

sal55 says:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sal55
This might be an obvious question that has been covered, but please excuse me because I am a newcomer here who has tried to catch up with the talks here.

Why is it that the only people who have anything positive to say about airtran or defend the airline are those that admit to either be employed by airtran (jetmech, b717mech, flair) or those that are investors and live in the atlanta area (haze)?

I have never flown airtran or valujet (maybe I flew them once in florida but if I am not sure, but I used to travel there a lot) that I can remember and I don't really care since I mainly travel internationally. But I didn't know there was so much controversy over these guys either. I just hope that nobody gets hurt. And I also hope that you guys stop trying to convince eachother of your side of the argument because you never will.

If you asked the employees of Enron a few years ago if the company was corrupt and if it was going to fold, they would have laughed and then ripped you to shreads. So the fact that all these airtran employees and investors call dbaker crazy makes me chuckle just a little bit.
On the other hand sal why is it that the only people saying AirTran is the worst airline ever saftey and managerial wise are people who have never even flown our airline? You are right about trying to convince each other.
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Old 09-26-2003, 02:11 PM   #3
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My only answer to that question I guess it that it sounds like the folks who say AirTran is unsafe probably don't want to fly the airline. And I'm not sure that there is any perspective to be gained about an airline's safety by being a passenger. Absolutely you won't understand management strategies and policies by riding in 12B for a couple hours.
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Old 09-26-2003, 07:39 PM   #4
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SAL,

Let me address your question head on. It isn't a matter of us trying to convince people weather or not our airlne is safe. It's a matter people like DBaker (who hosts this web site at least in part) who are trying to smear our airline for no apparent reason. He has posted several things to try to make the airline look bad, which were absoulte lies.

If you go to WWW.ITYT.COM/AIRTRAN he claims it is a warning about how unsafe AirTran supposidly is, but he shows four pictures of the same aircraft that caught fire in Atlanta and tries in the captions to say they were four different incidents.

Basically it boils down to this. We are proud of the airline we work for. And if we were making real mistakes, that's one thing. But as I said he is trying to smear the airline with no real reason or basis, and many lies. That is why we take the stand we do.

Let me put it to you this way - It would be like if you had a car wreck, and afterwards someone started putting stories in the newspaprer every week saying you had accidents all the time and ran people off the road when none of it was true. You'd be unhappy and angry too.
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Old 09-29-2003, 01:32 PM   #5
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Re: Maybe this is an obvious question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sal55
Why is it that the only people who have anything positive to say about airtran or defend the airline are those that admit to either be employed by airtran (jetmech, b717mech, flair) or those that are investors and live in the atlanta area (haze)?
Ask yourself the opposite question: Why is that the main people who have only negative things to say about AirTran or deride the airline are those that admit to never flying them or those that are only frequent fliers and live in Texas?

Those two Texan frequent fliers (who just so happen to also be the founder/moderators of this website) gleem about Southwest and Continental all the time. Coincidence that those two airlines are based in Texas? So the whole "hometeam" argument just doesn't fly.

So isn't it only natural that the ones who defend AirTran are those who are actually familiar with the airline? Those of us who live in the area where their hub is located, those of us who fly them regularly, those of us who actually work on their 717s, and those of us that invest in the airline and vote on its issues naturally are the ones who know them best. Of course.

In a court of law, the accusers sit on one side and the defendants sit on the other. The defendants are actually those who have been accused, and as passengers and investors and employees we are naturally the ones to defend AirTran. Of course

Welcome to the discussion
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:03 PM   #6
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Re: Maybe this is an obvious question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sal55
If you asked the employees of Enron a few years ago if the company was corrupt and if it was going to fold, they would have laughed and then ripped you to shreads. So the fact that all these airtran employees and investors call dbaker crazy makes me chuckle just a little bit.
Talk about making me chuckle, now this one is just weak. Enron collapsed because of greedy, corrupt, incompetent ownership who encouraged criminal accounting practices. If you'll read the articles which detail AirTran's financial particulars posted on this site (that's what they're here for ) you'll see that AirTran's tremendous and expanding success is based on actuall passenger numbers, market share, earnings, performance, and so on. These numbers are culminated and put forth by independent industry experts, not by AirTran leadership or corrupt accounting firms. The industrywide consensus is that Joe Leonard is an airline genius, well-respected among his peers. AirTran's status is due to it's performance, Enron's was based on falsified accounting. Apples and oranges really, trying to equate AirTran's tremendous potential with Enron's corrupt failings is very weak indeed.

Welcome aboard sal, looking forward to many entertaining disussions
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Old 09-29-2003, 02:23 PM   #7
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I find it interesting that you dismiss "frequent fliers," yet justify your experience with AirTran partially because you're one of those "who fly them regularly." As far as where I'm located, I'm not sure how that is relevant. But I would be willing to bet that I flew in/out of ATL more times than you last year, as well as to, from, and throughout Florida, which I believe is AirTran's largest market. Additionally, I believe that you are one of the few (if not only) in this discussion that doesn't hold an FAA airmen certificate.

For what it's worth, Enron's "success" was also based on increased market share, earnings, performance, and so on, which was verified by independent auditors. There is nothing different about this situation.

I'm not accusing AirTran of any financial wrongdoing, but to claim that it's a ridiculous comparison suggests that perhaps you're not equipped or informed to invest at the same level or capacity that you believe that you are.
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Old 09-29-2003, 04:07 PM   #8
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Re: Location, Location, Location...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sal55
...or those that are investors and live in the atlanta area (haze)?
sal55 brought up the whole location relevancy thing, not me. He was implying that I strongly support AirTran simply because I live near Atlanta, to which I pointed out that you strongly support Southwest and Continental and are from their home state of Tejas. I was just simply pointing out the flaw of that argument.

You probably did fly through Hartsfield International more than I did last year, unlucky you. But I'm not exactly sure how that makes you more of an expert on AirTran. I guess if I fly through Dallas 10 times a year I'll be an authority on Southwest Airlines. Same as you, I'm only a "frequent flier." And as such, I have about as much credibility creating a website deriding Alaska Airlines as you do AirTran. And we all know that doomed MD-80 of Alaska Airlines Flight 261 crashed into the Pacific Ocean off Port Hueneme, California on Jan. 31, 2000 on a flight from Puerto Vallarta, Mexico to San Francisco and Seattle. I know all about that incident (as most other well-informed fliers should) but this "frequent flier" isn't out there creating erroneous websites about Alaska Airlines. I don't claim to have that sort of expertise, I only claim that you don't.

Both of you are really reaching by trying to equate AirTran's tremendous success with the failings of Enron. You're simply guessing, hoping, but most of all reaching. If you're basing it on isider selling, I guess we can assume that Southwest Airlines' bubble will also burst just like Enron. Especially in light of the recent article I just posted relating to analysts' concerns over LUV's recent insider selling. I know...ridiculous. My thoughts exactly.

Mighty presumptuous of you to assume that I don't hold an FAA airmen certificate, don't you think? Especially since I've never stated such. Not surprising though, that's how the AirTran portion of this site is operated. You just so happen to be correct, I'm not a pilot. You probably established that by the fact that I never mentioned it here before, but presumption can be a risky proposition. Why don't you just flip a coin? I genuinly commend you on becoming a pilot, I hope to do the same eventually. That dream was temporarily sidetracked for me when I opted for a baseball scholarship instead of F/A-18 training in the Navy way back in 1988. Fifteen years, a wife, a son, and a corporate presidency later I've yet to pull that trigger. I've concentrated on other more pertinent monetary concerns in the past, but the next time I drive right past the Gwinnett Flight School just might be the time that I finally pull in for that first lesson.

By the way, the returns over the life of my SEP, Roth, and other investment accounts speak for themselves. Up well over 400% from inception, I'm equipped just fine thank you

As always, nice debating with you...
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Old 09-30-2003, 06:23 AM   #9
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dbaker said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaker
I find it interesting that you dismiss "frequent fliers," yet justify your experience with AirTran partially because you're one of those "who fly them regularly." As far as where I'm located, I'm not sure how that is relevant. But I would be willing to bet that I flew in/out of ATL more times than you last year, as well as to, from, and throughout Florida, which I believe is AirTran's largest market. Additionally, I believe that you are one of the few (if not only) in this discussion that doesn't hold an FAA airmen certificate.

For what it's worth, Enron's "success" was also based on increased market share, earnings, performance, and so on, which was verified by independent auditors. There is nothing different about this situation.

I'm not accusing AirTran of any financial wrongdoing, but to claim that it's a ridiculous comparison suggests that perhaps you're not equipped or informed to invest at the same level or capacity that you believe that you are.
I still can't see how you being a frequent flier and not on AirTran makes you an expert on the workings at AirTran. What did the comment about an Airmen Certificate have to do with anything. Remember dbaker Most of these disscusions were about maintenance and you don't have an A&P.
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