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Old 10-01-2003, 01:18 PM   #21
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Dbaker:
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I think the ankle injuries are largely from bad landings (heh) after bouncing off the bottom of the evac chute.
I shouldn't laugh but......... I'll see if we can incorperate some kind of wading pool at the bottom. Seriously though when people are cramming to get out of a plane they are pushing each other out of the door (head first, feet first, whatever just get out of my way). Peolpe get stampeded, Its everyman for himself, thats human nature at its worst. Like that night club fire in RI last year were people died from being pushed down and walked all over. Thats why I think the crew needs to be very sure what they ask for.
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Old 10-02-2003, 06:30 AM   #22
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Okay I got the right story for the Engine fire.

It was in fact a tail pipe fire due to the reason we discussed before. No damage to the engine. It turned out that a northwest 757 was behind our plane when he was starting engines. He came on the radio and was yelling that we had an engine fire. So our captain thinking something was wrong with fire detection system he immediately blew the fire bottle. So that Just goes to show you even high time pilots don't know whats going on all the time right sal55. You will never get a fire warning for a tail pipe fire, and blowing the bottle does nothing to put it out. Since the capt didn't shut the fuel off and keep motoring the engine, the fire department sprayed foam up the tail pipe to put the fire out. We had to clean the foam out and do several engine runs then Rolls-Royce and the FAA blessed the engine for service.
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Old 10-02-2003, 03:54 PM   #23
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Back Pain Schmack Pain

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Originally Posted by dbaker
But in all fairness, there's no indication that this guy didn't have back pain before the flight, too.
I was thinking the very same thing. "Jump out of the car honey, grab your neck, and yell 'WHIPLASH!!!'."
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Old 10-02-2003, 04:24 PM   #24
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Not Necessarily

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Originally Posted by sal55
This level of (low time, inexperienced) pilots is to almost to be expected from a smaller airline like this.
That's just a generalization really, not any sort of fact. I don't have exact figures, but I do know that many AirTran pilots came from Eastern Airlines after they went out of business. So don't just assume that AirTran pilots have "low time" or are "inexperienced."

The smoothest flight by far I ever had on any airline was an AirTran flight from Atlanta to Memphis. The pilot made it a point to "meet and greet" every passenger as they disembarked. I remained seated so I could be one of the very last off, since I felt compelled to inform him of my satisfaction with his abilities. He told me that he had been an F-4 pilot in Vietnam and survived being shot down. If you're familiar with the F-4, you're already aware of the difficulty maneuvering those flying busses (heavy, large turn radius, limited visibility/maneuverabilty, etc) and many were shot down over Vietnam. They didn't even have a cannon in the beginning, the first all-missle fighter in the inventory. The tiny and agile Mig-19s were quite a match for the F-4s, so we had to retrofit all F-4s with a cannon.

Short story long: when I offered my right hand to shake his, this 60-something (do they still let you fly into your 60s?) Vietnam-era pilot could only offer his left hand. He had lost his right arm below the elbow from the shrapnel. And let me reiterate, he was the smoothest pilot I had ever encountered. Inexperienced, I think not...

Don't fall into the trap of stereotyping, generalizing, and assuming. Very rarely are stereotypes, generalizations, or assumptions ever correct.
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Old 10-02-2003, 04:31 PM   #25
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Re: for what its worth

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Originally Posted by jetmech717
For what its worth, AirTran and boeing have been working on the problem of the 717's and the start sequence on the engines as we have been noticing a problem with it.
I would think Rolls Royce should be involved in these discussions too. They designed the engine
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Old 10-02-2003, 08:44 PM   #26
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It was mentioned that hopefully this doesn't happen to us on our 737's when we get them. I don't think it will. The first time i saw this happen was at Continental on an MD80. No evacuation, just a fireball and the plane went on it's way. One of the mechnics told me that the CFM 56 has an electronic ignition control that will keep this from happening because on that particular engine a fireball would trash the engine.
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Old 10-03-2003, 03:51 PM   #27
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sorry to tell you this flair, but this can and will happen to any jet engine...even the 737's. All it takes is for the ignitor that is being used to start the engine to be "worn" and the fuel will keep pouring in for ignition, but still no spark. Then if it just give enough spark to light the fuel but not the engine you can get a tailpipe fire. Most of the time the engine starts anyways and would blow out any access fuel, or the pilot could windmill. But let me tell you that this can happen to the 737's also, and the 747's and the 757's, 767's.......... and they all almost have electronic controllers on them, but it does not detect if the plugs are firing, just that the power is there at the plugs for ignition. later
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Old 10-04-2003, 07:33 AM   #28
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I just wanted to thank jetmech717 and b717mech for their comments in this thread. I found their info about the incident quite interesting.
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:23 AM   #29
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I just wanted to thank jetmech717 and b717mech for their comments in this thread. I found their info about the incident quite interesting.
Your welcome. But I must ask are you being sarcastic?
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Old 10-06-2003, 02:36 PM   #30
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Of course not. This incident would appear to be a total non-event and I found the discussion of "what really happened" to be very interesting. Thanks again.
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Old 10-06-2003, 02:47 PM   #31
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nugget said.
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Of course not. This incident would appear to be a total non-event and I found the discussion of "what really happened" to be very interesting. Thanks again.
Your welcome, Like we have said before me and jetmech717 are in this everyday. I am more than happy to explain how things happen or why.
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Old 10-08-2003, 04:20 PM   #32
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Again, These Things Happen All the Time

Agreed, non-events like this happen nearly every week among all carriers:

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[ The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 10/8/03 ]

Delta flight makes emergency landing after engine stalls

The Associated Press

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- A Delta Air Lines flight carrying 139 passengers to Atlanta made an emergency landing at Southwest Florida International Airport on Wednesday when one of its engines stalled shortly after takeoff. No one was injured.

The pilot of Delta flight 1954 shut down the malfunctioning engine about 7 a.m. and headed back to Southwest Florida International, where the plane landed safely about twenty minutes later, Delta spokesman Anthony Black said.

Black said the pilot shut down the 767-300's engine to avoid further damage and compensated with a slight rudder adjustment.

"They're trained to fly with one engine," he said. "The planes are designed to fly with one engine."

Black described the compression stall as similar to a car backfire. "It's like a hiccup," he said.

Rescue crews rushed to the airport runway after the pilot declared an emergency, but canceled their alert status eight minutes after the landing, said Laska Ryan, spokeswoman for the Lee County Port Authority, which operates the airport.

The plane returned passengers to the gate and they boarded another plane to Atlanta. Maintenance crews will change out the bad engine before it flies again, Black said.
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