Continental's 2004 B/F upgrade policy.

merchanb · 09-17-2003, 09:59 PM

New for 2004.

Changes to Continental's BusinessFirst upgrade policy:
1. K fares now require a non-refundable service fee+++ of 200.00 USD each way, in addition to the miles.
2. H and K fares on BusinessFirst routes to/from Hawaii now require a non-refundable service fee+++ of 200.00 USD each way, in addition to the miles.

+++ Service fees cannot be applied to future travel and are subject to change without notice.

(Mileage and Elite Segments/Points Earned will also vary according to fare class.)

(You can continue to earn 100% Elite mileage and full segments/points for Q, S, T and L Economy Class fares for travel on Continental Airlines, Continental Express and Continental Connection flights by booking your tickets at continental.com for flights between January 1 and December 31, 2004.)

http://www.continental.com/OnePass/n...0030910_02.asp

Optimist1125 · 09-18-2003, 12:26 AM

Basically, are they not saying to hell with segment flyers?
And to hell with leisure flyers who've been loyal and chosen them, even if price has to be important? After all, isn't it leisure flyers who fill seats?
But they're after revenue. And now a "Y" fare is on par with an elite flyer, even if the "Y" passenger isn't.

OK.... but....
What will their balance sheets look like when corporations don't pony up?
Will the two tiers of lower Elite levels bolt for competitors such as Delta and Northwest? This remains to be seen...

merchanb · 09-18-2003, 02:24 AM

Quote:

What will their balance sheets look like when corporations don't pony up?

Should look the same; just not as many road warriors sitting in the front of the bus.

Quote:

Will the two tiers of lower Elite levels bolt for competitors such as Delta and Northwest?

That, dear optimist 1125, could easily be construed as a disloyal move.

They all essentially seem to be paddling the same boat anyway.

"OnePass and WorldPerks elite members will also earn the same elite qualification miles they are accustomed to when traveling on either Continental or Northwest. But, when traveling on Delta flights, they will be subject to the Medallion qualification criteria -- meaning discounted coach fares will only earn them .5 qualifying miles, and some fares will earn zero qualifying miles."

http://www.webflyer.com/programs/not...hp?art_num=163

"Miles earned which count toward WorldPerks Elite Status
Delta's First/Business Class 150% of accrued miles
Delta's Full-Fare Coach (Booked in Y Class) 150% of accrued miles
Delta's Coach Class 100% of accrued miles
Delta's Discount Coach (flights booked in L, U or T class) 50% of accrued miles"

http://www.nwa.com/features/dlpartner.html

Sigh . . .

Optimist1125 · 09-18-2003, 08:22 AM

Grumble...

Nugget · 09-18-2003, 02:06 PM

In the abstract, I sure can't fault CO for aligning their elite program to reward behavior which produces revenue. Airlines need revenue, not volume, and the two are not directly related in the way many frequent flyers choose to believe.

That said, these changes will hurt me and put my Platinum status at risk. I have absolutely no control over the fare code of my travel. When I learn that I have to be someplace, I price a ticket and I book it. Costs are passed on to my customers and I'm obligated to choose the lowest price fare available to me.

Today I booked a ticket today and it priced out as a Q fare, which is penalized under the new scheme. It's frustrating to me to be affected by an aspect of travel that's completely beyond my control. It's no different than CO penalizing me if the routing on my flight puts me on a 767 instead of a 777.

I have little sympathy when changes "break" the ability to do cheap mileage runs for status, and I can't fault CO for trying to encourage revenue-generating behavior instead of encouraging volume-generating behavior. I'll earn plat for next year, but I'll certainly have my eyes open for other options which is a big difference from my attitude this past year.

merchanb · 09-18-2003, 05:42 PM

In the past it’s been more economical to book a K fare than to pay the non-refundable service fee. Now it appears that my best routing will be a 777 H fare connection in Narita rather than a 767 Y fare, or K fare with service fee, connection in Honolulu. (777 in a D or E seat rather than my favorite 767 D seat.)

Retired on Insufficient Funds myself (RIF), I have little sympathy for people who are fortunate enough to have other people pay for their tickets. (Merely being jealous . . . my customers paid for all my tax-deductible left seat hours.)

Had I had customers who would only pay for the cheapest available ticket, I would probably have coughed up the extra myself to get the bennies. Fortunately, my customers essentially paid for the whole durn airplane.

Cheer up Nugget; we could always start an explat club.

Optimist1125 · 09-18-2003, 10:37 PM

Methinks it's your sense of humor that got you those customers...
never mind all that technical expertise! <grin>

merchanb · 09-21-2003, 12:33 AM

Managing miles according to their monetary value it would appear that Continental’s Y class is becoming more attractive in 2004.

As before, buying a higher-class ticket appears appreciably less expensive than paying a non-refundable service fee plus miles to upgrade to Business/First from a lower class. With the Y fare, an upgrade costs half as many miles and, in addition to the bonus miles for your particular elite status, you'll earn double the segments and one and one-half as many miles towards elite status as actually flown.

Checking roundtrip Guam to Newark via Honolulu,for example, the refundable Y fare is only a few hundred dollars more than H or K fare. The Series 4 upgrade costs only 25,000 miles (as opposed to 50,000), saving more than the additional cost of Y fare, and you earn 27,333 miles towards elite status (instead of 18,220) bumping you up one elite level.

For those of us who fly just to get elite status so we can have elite status when we fly this is a deal.

Nugget · 09-21-2003, 10:08 AM

Described that way, it sounds quite attractive to me, too. I've always borne the costs myself for BusinessFirst upgrades. With a small price gap, paying the difference for a higher Y fare is no different to me than paying the $200 upgrade surcharges I've been paying.

Fortunately, I have a flexible travel policy at work. I can see how this route would be unavalable to a traveller in a larger company with a more rigid policy in place.

MaxCollins · 09-22-2003, 08:39 AM

With the new changes, is there anyway to force the online services (continental.com, itn.net, others?) to price a specific fare class? I'd like to see the differences in price between H/K/Y/Q/V for the routes I normally fly.

Optimist1125 · 09-22-2003, 01:11 PM

I am glad you voiced that and would love to see that as well.
That info is available when you cal Reservations, yes, if you ask?

So if yes, I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't be available on the web site. After all, they are pushing the web site and pushing customers to SELECT the more expensive fares.

How do we voice our opinion to people like Gordon?

merchanb · 09-22-2003, 04:33 PM

Quote:

I'd like to see the differences in price between H/K/Y/Q/V for the routes I normally fly

.
Me too. I normally do an itinerary hold on continental.com then pick up the phone to ask questions about it and haggle. Clicking on "Eligible for OnePass Mileage Upgrades" at least weeds out the ones you don't want . . . if any were available in the first place.

Quote:

That info is available when you cal Reservations, yes, if you ask?

You’ll probably do better calling your elite priority line, rather than reservations.

Quote:

How do we voice our opinion to people like Gordon?

Easy, you fill out one of those little forms and forget about it. (Unless, but it may make you feel better.) I once sent a nice letter . . . also with no response.

steveg · 10-03-2003, 10:17 PM

2004 will be a disaster for me

I fly continental weekly on short flights in my service region. I am a segment flier not a miles acruer. Look at my 2003 numbers

Current Elite Status: Platinum
2003 Elite Mileage: 55,808
2003 Elite Segments: 83

As you can see I fly a lot but on short flights, booked mostly on T class fares. If this was 2004 with the “no segment + 50% Elite Miles” rule in effect I probably wouldn’t clear gold this year after flying at least one flight on continental every week!

I fly so often, spending so much money with Continental, I feel betrayed and angry. I book all my flights though a corporate travel agent and I doubt I can get them to book my T’s and lower via the web next year.

I ask everyone to mail Gordon directly and let him know your feelings about his short sighted policy.

Continental Airlines
ATTN: Gordon Bethune
P.O. Box 4607
Houston, TX 77002

I appreciate your help. Send me your paypal account and I’ll buy your stamp.

Steveg1967(a)hotmail.com

09-17-2003, 09:59 PM	#1
merchanb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: GUM Posts: 136	Continental's 2004 B/F upgrade policy. New for 2004. Changes to Continental's BusinessFirst upgrade policy: 1. K fares now require a non-refundable service fee+++ of 200.00 USD each way, in addition to the miles. 2. H and K fares on BusinessFirst routes to/from Hawaii now require a non-refundable service fee+++ of 200.00 USD each way, in addition to the miles. +++ Service fees cannot be applied to future travel and are subject to change without notice. (Mileage and Elite Segments/Points Earned will also vary according to fare class.) (You can continue to earn 100% Elite mileage and full segments/points for Q, S, T and L Economy Class fares for travel on Continental Airlines, Continental Express and Continental Connection flights by booking your tickets at continental.com for flights between January 1 and December 31, 2004.) http://www.continental.com/OnePass/n...0030910_02.asp __________________

09-18-2003, 12:26 AM	#2
Optimist1125 Member ITYT Cabin Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CLE Posts: 30	Are they ultimately hurting themselves? Basically, are they not saying to hell with segment flyers? And to hell with leisure flyers who've been loyal and chosen them, even if price has to be important? After all, isn't it leisure flyers who fill seats? But they're after revenue. And now a "Y" fare is on par with an elite flyer, even if the "Y" passenger isn't. OK.... but.... What will their balance sheets look like when corporations don't pony up? Will the two tiers of lower Elite levels bolt for competitors such as Delta and Northwest? This remains to be seen... __________________

09-18-2003, 08:22 AM	#4
Optimist1125 Member ITYT Cabin Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CLE Posts: 30	Aargh..... Grumble...

09-18-2003, 10:37 PM	#7
Optimist1125 Member ITYT Cabin Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CLE Posts: 30	...an explat club Methinks it's your sense of humor that got you those customers... never mind all that technical expertise! <grin>

09-21-2003, 12:33 AM	#8
merchanb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: GUM Posts: 136	Y class? Managing miles according to their monetary value it would appear that Continental’s Y class is becoming more attractive in 2004. As before, buying a higher-class ticket appears appreciably less expensive than paying a non-refundable service fee plus miles to upgrade to Business/First from a lower class. With the Y fare, an upgrade costs half as many miles and, in addition to the bonus miles for your particular elite status, you'll earn double the segments and one and one-half as many miles towards elite status as actually flown. Checking roundtrip Guam to Newark via Honolulu,for example, the refundable Y fare is only a few hundred dollars more than H or K fare. The Series 4 upgrade costs only 25,000 miles (as opposed to 50,000), saving more than the additional cost of Y fare, and you earn 27,333 miles towards elite status (instead of 18,220) bumping you up one elite level. For those of us who fly just to get elite status so we can have elite status when we fly this is a deal.

09-18-2003, 02:06 PM	#5
Nugget Senior Member ITYT Navigator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 610	In the abstract, I sure can't fault CO for aligning their elite program to reward behavior which produces revenue. Airlines need revenue, not volume, and the two are not directly related in the way many frequent flyers choose to believe. That said, these changes will hurt me and put my Platinum status at risk. I have absolutely no control over the fare code of my travel. When I learn that I have to be someplace, I price a ticket and I book it. Costs are passed on to my customers and I'm obligated to choose the lowest price fare available to me. Today I booked a ticket today and it priced out as a Q fare, which is penalized under the new scheme. It's frustrating to me to be affected by an aspect of travel that's completely beyond my control. It's no different than CO penalizing me if the routing on my flight puts me on a 767 instead of a 777. I have little sympathy when changes "break" the ability to do cheap mileage runs for status, and I can't fault CO for trying to encourage revenue-generating behavior instead of encouraging volume-generating behavior. I'll earn plat for next year, but I'll certainly have my eyes open for other options which is a big difference from my attitude this past year.

09-18-2003, 05:42 PM	#6
merchanb Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: GUM Posts: 136	In the past it’s been more economical to book a K fare than to pay the non-refundable service fee. Now it appears that my best routing will be a 777 H fare connection in Narita rather than a 767 Y fare, or K fare with service fee, connection in Honolulu. (777 in a D or E seat rather than my favorite 767 D seat.) Retired on Insufficient Funds myself (RIF), I have little sympathy for people who are fortunate enough to have other people pay for their tickets. (Merely being jealous . . . my customers paid for all my tax-deductible left seat hours.) Had I had customers who would only pay for the cheapest available ticket, I would probably have coughed up the extra myself to get the bennies. Fortunately, my customers essentially paid for the whole durn airplane. Cheer up Nugget; we could always start an explat club.

09-21-2003, 10:08 AM	#9
Nugget Senior Member ITYT Navigator Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 610	Described that way, it sounds quite attractive to me, too. I've always borne the costs myself for BusinessFirst upgrades. With a small price gap, paying the difference for a higher Y fare is no different to me than paying the $200 upgrade surcharges I've been paying. Fortunately, I have a flexible travel policy at work. I can see how this route would be unavalable to a traveller in a larger company with a more rigid policy in place.

09-22-2003, 08:39 AM	#10
MaxCollins Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2	With the new changes, is there anyway to force the online services (continental.com, itn.net, others?) to price a specific fare class? I'd like to see the differences in price between H/K/Y/Q/V for the routes I normally fly.

09-22-2003, 01:11 PM	#11
Optimist1125 Member ITYT Cabin Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: CLE Posts: 30	Fare class costs on web site I am glad you voiced that and would love to see that as well. That info is available when you cal Reservations, yes, if you ask? So if yes, I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't be available on the web site. After all, they are pushing the web site and pushing customers to SELECT the more expensive fares. How do we voice our opinion to people like Gordon?

10-03-2003, 10:17 PM	#13
steveg Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: IAH Posts: 4	2004 will be a disater for me 2004 will be a disaster for me I fly continental weekly on short flights in my service region. I am a segment flier not a miles acruer. Look at my 2003 numbers Current Elite Status: Platinum 2003 Elite Mileage: 55,808 2003 Elite Segments: 83 As you can see I fly a lot but on short flights, booked mostly on T class fares. If this was 2004 with the “no segment + 50% Elite Miles” rule in effect I probably wouldn’t clear gold this year after flying at least one flight on continental every week! I fly so often, spending so much money with Continental, I feel betrayed and angry. I book all my flights though a corporate travel agent and I doubt I can get them to book my T’s and lower via the web next year. I ask everyone to mail Gordon directly and let him know your feelings about his short sighted policy. Continental Airlines ATTN: Gordon Bethune P.O. Box 4607 Houston, TX 77002 I appreciate your help. Send me your paypal account and I’ll buy your stamp. Steveg1967(a)hotmail.com __________________

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