An open question to AirTran employees.

[mduell]

Since seemingly so many of you read and post here (no doubt due to the link from your private employee fourm), I ask you all this: To what do you credit AirTran/ValuJet's high rate of Fatal Events (as reported on airsafe.com/airline.htm)?

[jetmech717]

Mr Duell,
First of all I think airsafe.com should seperate the AirTran and ValuJet names. It is not the same airline...(new people, new management, new planes). I'm sure that when American Airlines bought TWA that they did not carry over all of TWA's statistics from accidents even though A/A is using the planes TWA had. Anyways if you did that then AirTran would not even be on the list because we have no fatalities, but since they dont...the reason the rating is so high is becuase AirTran does not fly enough miles to even put a dent in the 110 fatalities caused by the ValuJet crash. Now a larger airline that flies many more Airplanes many more miles (cross country, trans-Atlantic) if they have fatalities then the miles flown help cover it up, but all this does not matter since AirTran has 0 fatalities and we are flying brand new B717's so you can rest assure when you fly us. Thanks for the question.

[travatl]

Airsafe.com, with skewed statistics at best, does not accurately reflect ANY of the carrier's safety records.

To think that a management team conspires in a darkened room hidden from prying eyes of safety watchdogs, to intentionally run an unsafe operation is both ludicrous and ignorant.

The financial repercussions of the ValuJet accident cost the company more than it EVER could have saved if it had in fact been trying to cut costs on safety. It's the most simple business sense....an "unsafe" perception of your product is the quickest way to financial ruin.

With nearly 6,000 employees dedicated to a safe operation, and a management dilligence for safety I never saw at the majors, AirTran makes every decision with "SAFEST" as it's priority.

Luckily, the few naysayers of AirTran's safety live on the internet (just like the naysayers for every other carrier in this country). Don't fly AirTran - they're doing FINE without you.

Travis

[jetmech717]

With all kidding asside we really do want you to fly AirTran and see for yourself that we are a really good airline thats maintenance and safety is as good if not better than a major airline, but we can fly airplanes at a lower cost (because there newer) and therefore you fly at a lower cost. We just started flying to Vegas and L.A. and you should see how much Delta had to drop there prices down to try to match us. We are talking about people saving maybe $1,000 on a round trip. Just keep watching us for awhile we are growing.

[andrewonline]

Originally Posted by jetmech717

We just started flying to Vegas and L.A. and you should see how much Delta had to drop there prices down to try to match us. We are talking about people saving maybe $1,000 on a round trip. Just keep watching us for awhile we are growing.

First of all, I hear the Ryan International A320 aren't reliable. I'm not saying there not safe! However an AirTran flight ATL to LAX had to divert to DFW after malfuncutions.

AirTran pilot: I have to admit that the reliability of these aircraft certainly haven't been doing us any favors.

P.S. My life isn't worth $1,000.

[jetmech717]

well andrew i cant argue this one with you except that you imply that the airbus is unsafe. I dont believe this is the case, but I wouldnt know because the AirTran mechanics do not work on the (2) A320's that currently fly the LA and Vegas flights for us. They are painted in AirTran colors but they are fully operated (flown) and maintained by Ryan international, we can help the mechanics if they need it but they do well on their own. I can say that they do a full service check on both planes everyday, and thats more than most company's do. The only complaints we had were at the beginning of the routes, and thats when you usually have the most problems (as far as delays and getting the schedules down pat). Here is another case of gossip though, because at the beginning of the contract one of the Airbus' broke down and we flew a B717 from ATL to Dallas (to refuel) and on to LAX, then back to Dallas (to refuel) and on to ATL, so yet another example of people not knowing whats going on and saying that a plane had to devert, but everything seems to be running smoothly with the Airbus' as of now. I cant blame you for not liking the Airbus, Most of us mechanics prefer Boeing and were pretty excited to see the company choose the 737. We will be flying the 737 to the La and Vegas flights in June of next year when we get our first delivery.

[Delta7203]

Sorry to drop my two cents in, but....

Why does everyone have to pick on AirTran? They are a great airline, I have many AirTran employed friends and their planes are great (I still like my 757 though)! By the way, I hate airbus planes! That sidestick, man... it's a killer (literally)! Did you know that there have been more Airbus crashes due to the fly-by-wire system than Boeing crashes in the last decade or so?! And, Airbuses are so much more expensive to operate that Boeing planes, The word from Kennedy is that "Blue" is starting to feel the consequences that come with buying Airbus products.

Well, Im sorry for butting in. And again, I am going to say that everyone needs to lay off of AirTran!

-John

[jetmech717]

Thanks delta for the backing. I agree with you... I like Boeing products better than Airbus, mainly because I have always worked on Boeing and MDdouglas A/C so I'm just bias. We have also been hearing the same rumors about Jet Blue and the warrenty running out on the first 320's they got and that the maintenance is getting $$$ now. We'll see though, because I think it is ridiculous how high there stock is when they only have about 45 A/C, and the stock was high when they had only 20?? Is it a coincidence maybe because their hub is at Kennedy???? Politics....gotta love 'em.

[haze]

AirTran ran JetBlue out of the Atlanta market. Pay special attention to the part where JetBlue's CEO says they're only interested in making money! Is he implying they don't care about their customers and/or safety? You suspect that some of these CEOs think this way, but it's scary to hear them just come out and say it like that....

[ The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 10/24/03 ]

Citing competition, JetBlue will bid Atlanta farewell

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution


Just six months after arriving, JetBlue Airways is leaving Atlanta.

The discount airline, known for a hip image and TVs at each seat, will end service between Atlanta and Long Beach and Oakland, Calif., on Dec. 4. Executives said they want out of an intensifying West Coast dogfight with Delta Air Lines and AirTran Airways.

"We just thought it was a little crazy," said JetBlue Chief Executive Officer David Neeleman.

Though it hadn't built a meaningful presence in Atlanta, JetBlue's launch of flights to the Los Angeles suburb of Long Beach in May marked the first nonstop service to the West Coast by a discount carrier. It challenged Delta's dominance on the route and prompted AirTran to launch its own flights.

Fares to the Los Angeles area plummeted. Sale fares for advance-purchase Long Beach flights run as low as $176 round-trip on JetBlue, and short-notice fares are less than half the $2,000-plus prices before competition heated up.

Business travel consultant Chris McGinnis termed JetBlue's retreat "a bummer" but said he expects fares will stay down because AirTran still will compete with Delta to Los Angeles and San Francisco. But fewer seats may be offered at those prices, he said.

JetBlue already had pulled back, cutting its Long Beach schedule from three flights to one in September. It added an Oakland flight at the same time.

AirTran has two daily flights to Los Angeles International Airport. It will start one daily flight to San Francisco International on Nov. 12, with a second flight planned next spring.

Previously limited to East Coast and Midwest markets, AirTran also has added flights to Las Vegas and Denver this year. It has ordered longer-range jets and is expected to use some of them to bolster its presence in the West.

AirTran President Bob Fornaro said JetBlue was at a disadvantage because it didn't have an Atlanta hub feeding customers into its flights.

Fornaro said AirTran had planned West Coast flights even before JetBlue's entry.

After JetBlue announced its West Coast plans last winter, Delta matched the new airline's fares, offered triple frequent-flier miles and doubled its capacity to three Los Angeles airports by adding flights and bigger planes.

Delta added the flights "to meet anticipated demand," Delta spokesman John Kennedy said. Delta will "compete vigorously" in all its markets, he said.

"It became a kind of a war between AirTran and Delta," Neeleman told industry analysts Thursday in a conference call after releasing third-quarter earnings.

"We certainly with our cost structure could have stayed in there for a long time just to . . . prove a point, but we're not into proving points. We're just into making money," the JetBlue CEO said.

[haze]

Originally Posted by jetmech717

We'll see though, because I think it is ridiculous how high there stock is when they only have about 45 A/C, and the stock was high when they had only 20??

Agreed, JetBlue's P/E ratio is 40 while AirTran's is only 15. They can't compete directly with AirTran, as evidenced by the above article I just posted. I welcome JetBlue and the fare competition they bring. But I wonder if the whole leather seat, DirecTV, Airbus A320, no business class philosophy will eventually be their downfall. AirTran and Southwest don't have to incur those costs, and JetBlue's recent complete withdrawal from the Atlanta market has me wondering just how long they can sustain it. Especially when Delta's Song (leather and TV too) starts service mainly from NYC to FLA.

I imagine when all that takes hold, we'll be seeing AirTran's stock price and P/E ratio rise and JetBlue's fall to a point where they're more in line with one or another. JetBlue's market cap isn't THAT much more than AirTran's and neither are their profits. But JetBlue is trading at three times the value of AirTran, and their P/E ratio is nearly three times as high as AirTran's as well. Speaking of overvalued[sic], all that talk about insider selling at AirTran pales in comparison to the insider selling that's been going on over at JetBlue. You've made a very astute observation, jetmech717. JetBlue trading at nearly $60 per share with a P/E ratio of 40, AirTran trading at nearly $20 per share with a P/E ratio of 15. AirTran has nearly twice as many aircraft and routes and just drove JetBlue out of Atlanta. So you be the judge...

[Delta7203]

Originally Posted by jetmech717

AirTran and Southwest don't have to incur those costs, and JetBlue's recent complete withdrawal from the Atlanta market has me wondering just how long they can sustain it. Especially when Delta's Song (leather and TV too) starts service mainly from NYC to FLA.

Even though I am a pilot for Song (well, going to be in a week) I am going to say what I think anyway....
I think that Song will beat jetBlue for one reason -- Song has the backing of a major U.S. airline and can go for quarters upon quarters of losses. This is the ONLY reason why Song will win.

(Sorry to be rude but...) I think that Mr. Neeleman must have zoned-out while he was listening to the Airbus Information Officers when they were talking to him about buying their 320s....(he has ADD)


- John

P.S. -- I would like to congradulate the people of AirTran (and Delta) for winning the Battle for Atlanta.

[jetmech717]

JetBlue CEO Neeleman states:

"We certainly with our cost structure could have stayed in there for a long time just to . . . prove a point, but we're not into proving points. We're just into making money," the JetBlue CEO said.

"Plane" and simple...pun Its obvious that airlines are here to make money, point blank, but you never want to state this as your primary, #1, firts priority. Even if it is, you always put costomer service first. Keep the costomer happy and the $$ will come. Haze I dont even have to discuss the JB stock issue with u. Its obvious that something smells funny at JFK. I dont like to see an airline have to leave a city. It helps keep the cost down for flyers, but as long as there are at least (2) airlines here that seems to be enough for now. Thats good news for AirTran and Delta. Hows that plane coming Delta? Get the glow in the dark tail yet? he he later all

[Delta7203]

N695DL is the plane I was in mostly. It was put in the paint shop about two or three weeks ago... I did fly 4 more times to LAX and back -- I am currently "on paid vacation" and I will fly my first flight for Song on November 14 from BOS to RSW!

I'm going to love my lime-green-glow-in-the-dark 752!!


- John